Who did John Crouch Jr. and John Crouch Sr. marry?

A Crouch Family Heritage Association Family Tree page

John Crouch Jr. is said, variously, to have married Mary Webb, Elizabeth Bradberry, Elizabeth Jenkins on 4 Mar 1820, Christina McInturff, and Susanna Williams, daughter of Capt. Charles Williams.

Recent research on the Williams family has established that this John Crouch was not the one who married Susannah Williams. Instead, it was a John Crouch from the Goochland Co., Virginia Crouch family who married her. | More on them below

From: Evie Naranjo

E-mail: naranjomomof5@aol.com

Phone: 301-924-3737

An addendum to the information I just sent you on John Crouch, Jr. and Susannah Williams. I know he m Elizabeth Jenkins 4 Apr 1820, Washington Co., TN. This was found at the TN State Library in "Marriage Records of Washington Co., TN 1787-1840" by Norma Rutledge Grammer and Marion Day Mullins.

Additionally, in response to a query on the net, I was told he m Mary Sarah Webb about 1749 King George Co., VA and also m Christine McInturff 21 Mar 1807, Carter Co., TN. based on research by a Dave Boatman. I have not substantiated this.
[Note by John Howard Crouch: John Crouch Sr. married his wife Sarah around 1749 in KG Co., so that's probably who "Mary Sarah Webb" is. More about that at Who was Mrs. John Crouch Sr? ]

The letter below discusses which John Crouch married Elizabeth Bradberry, and whether he is the same John as any of the ones in the Washington County, Tennessee Crouch family.

Extract from a 1994 letter from John Howard Crouch of Arlington, Virginia to John Henry Crouch of Long Beach, Mississippi:

Dear Mr. Crouch,

I would like to know more about the movements of your John Crouch, so I can establish whether or not he is the same as ours. Even if establishing it is a long shot, there is a good chance of at least being able to rule it out if we get some more information. We think ours [John Crouch Sr.] is buried in Tazewell, Tennessee, but I don't know what authority we base that on. As far as who-all he married, we have looked at the same evidence as you have, plus some other evidence (or legend), and we don't really know.

Similarly, I would like to know about later records of Elizabeth Bradberry Crouch for similar reasons.

I am enclosing pages from the working genealogy notebook of my uncle Warren Crouch, who went and looked at court records in Henry County in the sixties or seventies. He found the record of Elizabeth Bradberry marrying John Crouch, and assumed this was John Crouch Jr., my 5x great-grandfather. He also noted that there was a lawsuit between Crouches and Bradberrys in Henry County from 1778 to '80. However, he changed his mind when people gave him other names of people who reportedly married John Crouch Jr. My immediate family believed until recently that John Crouch Jr. married Susanna Williams, daughter of Captain Charles Williams. How, however, I think that that possibility has been eliminated. Mrs. L.M. Crouch and some other Crouches believe John Crouch Jr. married Mary Webb, Christine McInturff, and the widow Elizabeth Jenkins. Either way, he settled in Washington Co., Tenn. and joined the Campbellite church, and Spencer and James Edwin are not among his descendants.

I think Warren now thinks there were two separate Crouch families in Henry Co., Virginia during the Revolution. I think he recently told me that the other Crouches were involved in the lawsuit, and one of our Crouches was hauled into court and had to explain the matter. If this is true, you must be one of those other Crouches. On the other hand, Warren may have just hypothesized the other family in order to explain the marriage to Elizabeth Bradberry, since he was told that John Crouch Sr. married an Elizabeth Lane and John Crouch Jr. married all those others.

All the genealogists in my family, including all the descendants of Jesse Crouch and Mary Sarah Nance; and of Joseph Crouch and Margaret Sanford, now believe that our ancestor John Crouch Sr. first married Sarah Barbary Weathers and second married the widow Elizabeth Lane. How do we know this? I don't know of anyone who had it passed down through the centuries, rather, I think all of us got it from Mrs. L.M. Crouch, who was the foremost Crouch genealogist. I have no idea where she got Sarah's last name from, although she did not even claim it to be an educated guess, but rather cited "tradition." Anyhow, Mrs. L.M. died around 1990 and all her materials are in a library at Harrisonville, Missouri. I am sure she had stuff about your line, whether or not you are related to us. She was good about listing her sources for things, but the editors of her article (enclosed) omitted her sources, as did most authors who cited her work. She herself never put her work into a book.

We all have different ways of spelling Sarah Barbary's name, and none of us claims to know which is right. I've most often seen Bradberry, Barbary and Barberry, but also Barbee, Barbury and Bradbury. I've also been told that, while John Sr. married a Bradberry, we have no way of knowing that she and Sarah were the same person.

We do know that John Sr.'s wife Sarah was buried in the Buffalo Ridge Cemetery in Washington Co., Tenn. She died 11 March 1782. Her gravestone was overgrown and buried from 1927 until around 1986. We think she married a Mr. Weathers before marrying John Crouch, since John and Sarah Crouch are referred to in a lease as the parents of William Weathers.

On the other hand, in looking over the documents I am sending you, it occurs to me that the John Crouch who married the widow Sarah Weathers and leased land in Stafford County in 1752 might not be my ancestor John Crouch Sr. For one thing, the documents complied by Mrs. L.M. show the widow still being named Weathers in 1750, although John Sr. had married and had a son, Joseph Crouch, by 1749. Second, the three-lifetimes lease doesn't mention Joseph Crouch, though there could be all kinds of reasons for that. Third, William Weathers does not appear in any later records of our Crouch family.

If you are descended from a John Crouch who is not related to ours, there is still the matter of the Bradberry family. Sarah Barbary Weathers is assumed to have married John Crouch Sr. back in Stafford or King George counties, so I have no evidence about how her family could be related to the Bradberrys who were in Henry county. However, there may be books about that family--I've never looked them up. Warren found two Barbary wills in Stafford County, Va.: Andrew in 1702 (an inventory) and Thomas in 1752.

There were other Crouch families in Southwest and South-central Virginia. One was in Goochland Co., another was in Bedford Co. (and stayed there), and another was in Montgomery Co. (but I think its descendants are accounted for and moved to West Virginia).

--PS (not sent)--Mrs. L.M. Crouch says John Crouch Jr. married someone possibly named Webb early in his life, and then around 1820 married Mrs. Elizabeth Jenkins

Sincerely,

John Crouch

John Henry Crouch replied--
" ... the John Crouch who married Elizabeth Bradberry and died in Green County, KY in early 1825 cannot be the same person as [12] JOHN CROUCH, JR., who died on 4 September 1842 in Washington Co., TN while living with David Maines."

From: "Linda Stufflebean" <dstuf@worldnet.att.net>
To: "John and Richard Crouch; Crouch & Crouch" <crouch@patriot.net>
Subject: Re: John and Susannah Williams Crouch, Bedford Co., VA
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:25:55 -0700

Dear John and Richard,

Thank you for contacting me with your Crouch information. My interest is
primarily in the Williams (Susannah, and 85 pages of her relatives!).
Because I've approached the problem from the Williams end, I am hoping that
I have some data that you may not have, or realize that it pertains to this
John Crouch.

Since you have identified Susannah as the daughter of Capt. Charles
Williams, I assume that you know about her sister, Nancy, who m. Isaac
Gardner, and her brothers, Peter and Charles Jr. I have tracked these
siblings to Maury Co., TN by 1830 and then Marshall Co. in 1840. The
Gardners moved nearby to Giles Co.

I had a terrible time tracking them from Charles Sr.'s 1805 will until
1830. The Pittsylvania Co., VA tax lists helped somewhat and then I
branched out over the border to NC. In 1800, John Crouch is listed on the
Rockingham Co., NC census. In the household are a male 26-45 (John), a
female 16-26 (Susannah), a male 16-26, female 16-26, female 10-16, female
10-16, male 10-16 and a female 0-10.

I have not seen a copy of Charles Williams' 1805 will, but a pen pal tells
me that along with his children, Charles named grandchild, Polly Crouch.
Since John and Susannah m. in 1794, I assume the female under 10 is Polly
Crouch and is Susannah's only living child in 1800.

I am sure that the Rockingham John Crouch is "ours" because Peter and
Charles Williams Jr. are there, too.

On 23 Apr 1801, John Crouch is selling land on Wolf Island Creek in Caswell
Co., NC to Major Brockman for 100 lbs. Susannah Crouch also signed.
Witnesses were Turner Patterson, James Brockman, Peter Williams and Obediah
Tucker.

The Crouches were on the move again in 1802, when they appear on the
Pittsylvania Co. tax lists. John was also listed in 1803, 1804, 1805, 1810
and 1811. In 1802, 1803 and 1804, there is a Hardin Crouch listed next to
him, taxed only for himself and a horse. (There is a Hardin Crouch who d.
in Montgomery Co., TN in 1845. In 1820, he was over 45 years old. I have
no idea if this is the same Hardin Crouch. If so, then he may well be a
brother of John, rather than a possible son.)

I have no clue when Susannah died or if she had anymore children.

As you can see, this pieces don't directly fit the family you linked to in
your note to me. However, I am hoping that we can fit a few more pieces
together, especially with a possible death date for John and Susannah.
This information may, however, separate out the question of which John
Crouch married Susannah.

Linda,
After I told you I had no info on John after 1811 I began copying files to
send. Then I put a search for any file with a Pittsylvania Co connection and
guess what I found:

17 July 1998 found this in file jo010051 Descendants of Jonathan Crouch
(ca1780- ) of Bath Co KY copied from material sent by Mrs. Jere Fletcher,
RR 1 Box 1264, Cape Tranquility, Chandler TX 75758 with her ltr dtd 12 April
1992 to Glenn Crouch. Numbers enclosed in < > refer to family numbers of
Nacogdoches County Families compiled by The Nacogdoches Co TX Genealogical
Society, 1985. Numbers enclosed in { } refer to the article reference
number used in The Researcher dtd Jan 1981 from Chillicothe MO. Numbers
enclosed in / / refer to additional sources.

JONATHAN CROUCH (ca1780- ) OF BATH CO KY

Jonathan Crouch b ca1780, ______ KY; d ______, ______; m ______, ______,
Hannah Wells. Jonathan Crouch s/o ______ & ______ (____) Crouch. Hannah
Wells b ca1780, ______ VA; d ______, ______; d/o ______ & ______ (____)
Wells. [According to The Researcher: Jonathan Crouch was of German descent].
Jonathan & Hannah (Wells) Crouch had 5 sons & 1 daughter: Joseph Crouch
(____-____), Isaac Crouch (____-____), Jonathan Crouch Jr. (ca1801-1890),
Andrew Crouch (____-____), James Crouch (ca1815-____) & Rebecca Crouch
(____-____). <235> {132} /MR-1/

Note #4: <F238> is an article on Charles William Crouch that was included
with the remaining Crouch material with the note that "we have been unable to
establish ties at this time." Following tidbits in this article: 02 Nov 1852
Charles W. Crouch was administrator to estate of John E. Crouch in
Nacogdoches Co TX. From History of Kaufman County Vol. II published 1983 by
Kaufamn County Historical Commission at Kemp, TX: John Crouch b ______ 1767,
______; d 14 Dec 1813, Franklin, Williamson Co TN______; m ______ 1794,
Pittsylvania Co VA, Susannah Williams. Susannah Williams b ______, ______; d
23 Feb 1845, Williamson Co TN; m (1) John Crouch; m (2) 06 May 1823, ______,
Ephriam Brown. Charles William Crouch b 12 Sep 1806, Pittsylvania Co VA; d
______, ______; m (1) 06 Jun 1827, Williamson Co TN, Lucretia "Lucressey"
Nash; m (2) ______ 1844, ______, Martha A. Smith; m (3) ______ 1849, ______,
Amanda Norwood. Charles William Crouch s/o John & Susannah (Williams) Crouch.
ca1810-1813 John & Susannah (Williams) Crouch moved their family to Williamson
Co TN. 1840 C. W. & Lucretia Crouch in San Augustine Co TX. 1860 census
Kaufman Co TX lists C. W. Crouch with no wife. According to the article, this
information compiled by Mr. John P. Bailey of Gainesville TX. According to
Elizabeth Hearn Winfield & Patricia Hearn Glassman: "Our Garrett Crouch
family of San Augustine and Nacogdoches counties have family ties in Davidson
and Williamson counties in Tennessee making it possible that we are related."
I have a complete file of several pages on the Nacogdoches Co TX Families but
off hand, I don't recall finding anything else that connects.
-Glenn Crouch

From: Evie Naranjo

E-mail: naranjomomof5@aol.com

I just found correspondence on your Family Heritage website questioning whom Susannah Williams married. Ironically I was dealing with this today. A John Crouch Jr. son of John Crouch and Susannah Ellis was b 1767 in Goochland Co., VA and died 14 Dec 1813 in Franklin, Williamson Co., TN. I have just been transcribing indentures from Goochland Co., VA in which it is stated that John Jr. and his wife Susannah both now of NC (TN was part of NC at the time of the writing) sold their part of their land inheritance to Richard Crouch of Goochland.

>From these documents I have clarified the children of John and Susannah Ellis Crouch of Goochland were:
William b 15 Nov 1762, Goochland m Sally Downs Radford

Sarah b 29 Nov 1764 Goochland m Stephen Woodson 8 Aug 1789 Goochland

Susannah Crouch b 25 Sep 1766, Goochland

John Crouch b 1767, Goochland m Susannah Williams 22 Oct 1799 Bedford Co, VA

Harding b 16 Jun 1772, Goochland m Dorothy Murray in TN and died in Montgomery Co, TN about 1845. (I have confirmed the name is Harding not Hardin as some have written by examination of his signature on a court document).

Richard b 23 Mar 1774, Goochland m Martha Britt 5 Nov 1812 Greenbrier Co., VA and Martha North 1830 Todd Co., KY

Stephen b 29 Nov 1776, Goochland.

I have verified the names of the above 7 children, but the dates and whom they married were found on ancestry.com having been placed there by a Pamela Parish.

The court documents have confirmed for me that John Crouch Jr did m a Susannah and Sarah Crouch m Stephen Woodson. I cannot affirm the veracity of the dates of birth, marriage and deaths nor the places and other spouses.

I thought this might be useful information to the discussion on your site about Susannah Williams and John Crouch, Jr.

Crouch Family Heritage Association
Permission granted to copy or use information
Crouchmas is May 3
Author: John Crouch, crouch@patriot.net